Catalytic converter price quote II

Catalytic converter price quote II

This is a companion piece to my blog from 11/16/2018 An epilog since all the work has been completed.

The client with a Hyundai Genesis had been quoted (by the local dealer) for the replacement of the catalytic converters and oxygen sensors a price of around $4500.00

All this based solely on the guess that codes P0420 and P0430 point towards the catalytic converter circuit.

In the end, one of the four converters did have to be replaced and the bill came to $1580.00 and not the originally quoted large sum of $4500.00

In a nutshell, the industry is filled with assumptions or calculated guesses. But in most cases this occurs due to the fact people still believe that true diagnosis is not worth the asking price. They want to be told what is wrong with their car for free. Also, that any one mechanic or any repair shop can do proper diagnosis correctly. Wrong!

In this instance, the client agreed to pay for proper testing and was rewarded with the answer,

Catalytic converter price quote

How much to replace the catalytic converter on a Hyundai Genesis?

Riiiiiing!

Hi! How much to replace the catalytic converter on my Hyundai Genesis?

The caller had the vehicle at another repair shop and he’d been told he needed the catalytic converters.

I asked him if he trusted the diagnosis to blindly invest the huge sum of money I was about to quote. Did they do any testing or just guessed based on the code?

 “No! they pulled codes P0420 and P0430 and told me I needed the catalytic converter” Then they send me on my way since their scanner was not working properly and they needed to send it out for repair.

Honestly! I wonder how I’m still sane after all this time. It drives me nuts to think people still believe all you need to diagnose a complex problem like a failing catalytic converter, is a scanner.

I own a stethoscope, but would you trust me to tell you what your ailment is?

People! The tool does not make the professional. Of all the shops I know, only a handful have someone qualified to properly do automotive testing and diagnosis. It takes a great deal of training and schooling to get to that top spot in a shop. Few have what it takes, and rarely you will find it in a mass merchandising shop whose model is low fee to the clients and low pay to the techs.

I thought that quoting for the converters was premature. So I quoted instead for the necessary testing to really find what is wrong with the pesky check engine light. He made an appointment for the following day

Best practices for your Toyota Camry

 Sooner better than later:

Time after time I get someone telling me they think auto repair shops just recommend work to try and pad their wallets. "My car didn't need any of those repairs" is what they say.

The victim today is a 1999 Toyota Camry with the V6 3.0 engine. You all know about the legendary problems Toyota has had with the V6 engine, don't you?

The owner is from LA driving through Ventura.

It’s here on the tow truck and the tow truck driver says the vehicle overheated badly. The owner said she had the radiator replaced a year ago.  To save money, I presume, they did not refill the radiator with coolant but used straight water instead. Both the upper radiator hose and the lower radiator hose were not replaced either. She was offered this items but thought the shop was merely being aggressive with their selling practices.

At the time when it was so much easier to have those cooling system hoses replaced, possibly at no additional labor cost, the client chose to think the repair shop she was working with tried to up-sell her something she didn't need. Well, she needs them today!

Unfortunately, what could have been another $40 to $50 back then, today is a blown head gasket on a Toyota V6 engine with 140+ K miles on it.

The repair is a complete engine replacement on a vehicle that is hardly worth $2000.00, and the cost of the engine replacement will surely exceed that worth. 

So, what do you say? What can you say that won’t add any more misery to this already bad situation?

A few facts from the trade:

If one ignition coil goes out, replace the rest, they are not that far behind and you are sure to have the “same problem again” if you don’t

If one cooling system hose goes out, guess what? Same thing - replace them all!

Best yet, find someone in the trade you trust, then don’t question their recommendations! 

Ever since,

Ever since you worked on my Chevy tahoe

Pretty much everything here starts with a phone call. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we dread them, sometimes they start one way and end another.

Back in the first week of February, we had the privilege of working on a 2011 Chevy Tahoe with a Diesel engine.

It was towed here with a large coolant leak. We proceeded to diagnose it as a broken radiator and got the approval to continue with repairs. Along with all the repairs we do, we always suggest to the client that we perform an inspection of the vehicle as a courtesy. This client agreed, and we performed the inspection. Everything found was documented, the work was performed, and the vehicle left the shop.

Fast forward to this morning when we get a phone call from this client letting us know that “ever since you worked on my vehicle, the air conditioning system is not working, it was working fine prior to your work, so you must have done something to cause it’s failure”

Answering a hostile call is always tricky. You can’t admit responsibility as you don’t know the facts, and you do not want to come across as not caring. It’s a careful balancing act.

The client said he had a friend who had wanted to become an auto mechanic, so he knew what he was talking about. His friend had heard we replaced the radiator and surmised we must have caused the failure.

As we are talking to the client, we found the electronic copy of the repair order in our point of sale system. Under recommendations we had suggested for diagnostic work on the air conditioning system as it was not working well. When we asked him to look it up on his copy, his tone changed to less combative and he agreed to an appointment for diagnosis of the air conditioning system.

I do not think the client was being fraudulent, it’s just that people don’t pay that much attention to their cars, until after they have come back from the repair shop. Then they are very hypersensitive about everything automotive.

When he brings his vehicle for us to work on the air conditioning system, we’ll be sure to perform another courtesy inspection, just in case!

The High cost of a free recall

I thought a factory recall was free.   Technically, the cost is to be paid by the vehicle manufacturer that has issued that recall. However, the funds generated by the recall is at the “recall rate” – less for the technician in flat rate hours and less for the dealership in revenue.

But now your local automobile dealership has found a way to make the recall pay for itself.  The recall notice is one of the biggest ways the dealer can get you to come in to the dealership since only they are allowed contractually to perform the recall.  At that time, when you and your vehicle are a captive audience, they suggest all sorts of repairs (not related to the recall) and recoup some money.  

On an average, only around 15% of people who buy a car from a dealer end up going back to them for service. They usually already have an independent auto repair shop they trust and have a relationship with.

When you take your vehicle to the dealer for the recall, they don’t give you a choice for their vehicle inspection. They make it seem it’s a requirement for them to perform the recall.

So, you go in for what you know to be a free recall and then get a phone call about all sorts of unrelated problems, and in many cases,  they are asking you for thousands of dollars for additional repairs.

A great client of mine took her Lexus for the air bag recall to the dealer (her assistant took it). She is home nursing a broken shoulder and not very mobile.

When the dealer called her and  told her they needed to do more than $3700.00 worth of other work, unrelated to the free recall, she nearly fell on the floor and almost broke her good shoulder!

They said the car needed an air filter, wiper blades, a steering rack and pinion, an alignment, differential and power steering system fluid exchanges, fuel injection service and the spark plugs replaced. Bingo! $3700.00 plus tax.

She couldn’t understand how a vehicle that had just had been inspected 3 months before could now need such an astonishing amount of money to put it back together!

The answer is simple. In a dealership, the distance from you to your car, goes like this. Owner, general manager, service manager, dispatcher, service adviser, shop foreman, team leader and finally, the auto mechanic who worked on your vehicle. Who is she supposed to contact regarding these suggestions?

By contrast, at an independent repair shop, the owner is often the mechanic or service adviser working on your vehicle. The owner at an independent repair shop, cannot hide. They have a great deal of skin in the game. They must be as close to perfect as possible or else. A bad review, maybe a refund or the possible loss of trust from the client.

I bet that you will be hard pressed to come up with the name of the service manager at the dealership where you purchased your last car. But, I bet you to know the name of the owner of most of the independent repair shops you’ve been to. You would probably say you know most of their names, right?

So, consider this, if you take your vehicle to the repair dealer for a recall and get a call back from them asking for additional work to be performed, please check with your existing auto mechanic to see how much and or if any of it is really needed. Chances are you may not require as much in car repairs as the dealer suggests.

Remember, small business’s work very hard to earn your trust. And twice as hard to keep it.

Never say Never

NEVER SAY NEVER, the one thing I've learned is that in automotive, nothing is ever absolute!

When you are inspecting something, you just can't jump to conclusions. Due diligence is very important as the client will cling on to every word you say.

Long time ago, a truck came in with an intermittent engine miss, I was young and starting in business.
After replacing the spark plug wires, the vehicle left and the miss was gone.
I remember well telling the client "it'll never miss again"
Sure enough, those words came back to haunt me three months later. The engine overheated in his truck, blew the head gasket between two cylinders and it caused the worst engine miss you can imagine.

The client came back and reminded me of the words I had said. I replied I was talking about the engine miss caused by the plug wires. 
He staked his position saying "you said it will never miss again and I trusted you"
I ate my words and proceeded to perform free repairs on the head gaskets (including machine shop work). I took it as a learning lesson and thus, I was not bitter by the exchange. I had considered it my fault for being dumb enough to have made such a generic promise.

Soon after that, a client comes in with a Toyota Tacoma truck and it had a horrible exhaust leak. Upon inspection, we found the catlytic converter was completly missing. They are very easy to remove on those vehicles and as such, they are often stolen for the core value of the converter. 
He asked if by installing the unit, it would take care of his exhaust leaks and the horrible noise. Remembering my previous lesson and having learned from before, I said no!
I said it would take care of that specific leak and source of great noise but, I could not be responsible for any other noises. I had to first install the catalytic converter and then go back and check and hear if other noises persisted.
We did the job and there were no other exhasut leaks found. 

Fast forward to a short while back. Two weeks after we did an oil change on a  10 year old Honda Civic, the car is going down the freeway and suddenly there is a loud hissing or growling noise. The owner, as she is about 60 miles away, decides to take it to the nearest repair shop.

The owner of the shop proceeds to tell her that "there is no doubt in my mind the repair shop who previosly worked on the vehicle is responsible for the failure. They should be made responsible to pay for all repairs". 
The under car splash shield had come loose and made contact with the road. One of the ears had broken and caused the unit to sag low enough to cause the noise. 

How many times have we fixed those things for free, I simply can't remember. But I can assure you I never blamed anybody for their breaking. 
It happens as the plastic ages, it becomes brittle. That's the logical conclussion. For anyone to say they left it loose is wrong!
It's just one big assumption for which there aren't sufficient facts to support it. 

The other shop kept the vehicle there two days as they oredered the part, one splash shield, six clips and $145 in labor to install, for a total of $279.00
They billed her one hour in labor to replace a shield that takes two minutes to remove when you replace the oil and or filter.

I resent the other shops attitude, not for the money they cost us (Yes, we reimbursed the client for all the expense) but for the loss and  trust from our client. They scared her so bad, she no longer brings her vehicle to us. And that's the big loss!

Last to work on it

We are doomed!

In automotive, there is such a thing as "the last one to work on it'
This is what it means, the last person or repair shop to work on the vehicle will get blamed for everything else that fails on such vehicle. With any luck, it will be for a period of time. With no luck, it could be for the rest of the natural life of the vehicle and or client combination.
Makes no difference if there is a connection or not. We have been blamed for brake lights that failed after we replaced the serpentine belt on the vehicle, connection,,,,None!

Recently, we changed the oil on a Mercedes C 300, it all went well with a single exception. Our technician managed to spill oil atop the valve cover and it must have gotten down to the exhaust manifold. Fast forward to a few miles and the vehicle came back with lots of oil smoke under the hood. He thought he had cleaned up all the oil he could see but, obviously he didn't.
Three weeks later and 2500 miles down the road, the same Mercedes C 300 is back. The client is claiming the battery light that is now appearing on the dash, it related to the oil we spilled and would like for us to take care of it at no cost to him.

Some background, vehicles are designed to be able to run almost indefinitely with oil leaks. Alternators are made to run with all kinds of spills around them without any loss of performance. Truth is, if alternators failed every time  they come in contact with oil, we'd be incredibly busy replacing alternators. No such luck though!

I told them we would remove the alternator and have it send to a place of their choice, if they said it had failed due to oil intrusion, then we would put an alternator at zero cost to them. However, if such wasn't the case, they would have to pay the quoted price.
They wouldn't agree to it and towed the car away.
I've learned there is no such a thing as impossible in automotive but, I'm 99%+ sure the oil spill had nothing to do with the alternator failure. The 120,000 miles on the odometer were the most probable cause I can think of.

This is only the prelude to the real story. It really starts here.

Four months ago, we did a front brake job on a dear friends vehicle. He happens to be extremely knowledgeable about cars as he has worked in the trade his whole life.
He came by last week and told me he didn't want anything from this but, I needed to know so we wouldn't do the same thing when we had an expensive vehicle.
He showed me the front wheels on his vehicle and told me, when we did the brake job last October, the mechanic must have had brake fluid in his hands, touched the front wheels causing the paint lacquer to damage. As further proof, he pointed to the rear wheels letting me know only the fronts were damaged.
Here are pictures of both front wheels(allegedly damaged by brake fluid) and the rear wheels as well, the ones presumably okay. You decide!

Case and point. There are many assumptions made. First, wheels are removed and installed being handled by the rubber part of the tire (the contact portion) and not the wheel part. Second, if we had to add brake fluid, we do it after all the brake work is completed. The reason being that you have to compress the brake calipers to install the new brake pads in them. Once you pump the brakes, then you check the reservoir and add fluid if necessary. New technicians may do this backwards once or twice, then they learn and probably never do it again! The technician who did the work has been with us for 15 years and he is my most motivated tech. Also the most knowledgeable, most up to date and the most read.

But in the end, the reason I think we are doomed, is because if, a guy with lots of automotive
knowledge and training can quickly jump to conclusion,  then we should expect someone with no formal automotive training to do so as well.

What's your labor rate?

The voice comes over the phone, the question  simple and to the point. "What is your labor rate per hour?"
Generally speaking, when the conversation starts like that, it's already bypassing all the relationship building, the trust added value you bring to this repair is absent as well.
I dislike starting out like that. It puts me on the same category as everyone else, good bad or indifferent, just answer the question!
I wouldn't  mind is so much if it weren't for the fact that a lot of the people who ask, are the ones who make more per hour than what you are charging ourselves.
Have you ever noticed that?

In this case, the question came from a local divorce attorney. He was trying to figure out if he should take on the project himself or farm it out. It was the valve cover gaskets on his Mercedes that he had considered taking it upon himself.
Out of frustration and not really even knowing why, I asked him, "Since you are asking me what my labor rate per hour is, what about yours, what is your labor rate?"
He was so proud when he told me he'd been a lawyer for  6 years now, and his labor rate was $475.00 per hour. Lest we forget there is a minimum retainer of $5000.00 he said!
I have to admit I almost lost it!
The people who bitch the most about your rates already make more per hour than that which you quoted. Why is that?
For the record, the average labor rate around Ventura is $120-148.00 per flat rate hour. Add another $25.00 to that rate for European vehicles.

I've talked to other repair shops that would quote $90 over the phone only to bill every hour at 1.5 times the actual labor and in essence, making that hour be worth $135.00 which is the going rate.
But why is it that some people in our trade have to resort to hiding the real number? The short answer is. PEOPLE!

They understand McDonald's cost to produce one 32 oz of soda is around 4 to 5 cents and yet, they are okay with paying $2.75 for that drink.  They know Starbucks famed Latte cost them less than $.25 but they consider $4.25 a fair price for such luxury. I wish they could understand we need to make a fair mark up on our parts so we can continue doing business. You can do it for less occasionally, but you won't last long if you do it long term.  If you fail to meet that formula consinently, we are certain to close the doors in a near future. Unfortunately, so many business owners do not have the discipline nor the training to understand, you have to uphold those prices in order to be around to provide a service to your clients.

  I'd like to see someone going to a hamburger place and tell them they are bringing their own soda mix, "Can I just get the cup and water to mix it with?"
Apple didn't get their trillion dollar evaluation by charging you a fair margin for their famed X iPhone. Their times 3 or 4  formula works great for their sustained growth.

Impossible expectations.

Impossible expectations:

The phone rings and I am the next in line to pick up a call…

On the other end, the caller starts by telling me he is an auto mechanic (RED FLAG NUMBER ONE) who does his own work and was recommended to us as a shop that “wouldn’t rip you off” (RED FLAG NUMBER TWO).

Anytime I hear the conversation start like that, I know I’m dealing with someone with severe trust issues.  They were hurt before or felt they were and now they tend to measure everyone with that same judgmental stick.

He proceeds to tell me he has a 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX and has done everything to the vehicle under the sky in order to try and correct an engine misfire.

He has replaced the injectors, the ignition coils, the spark plugs, the camshaft and crankshaft sensors, the oxygen sensor and the mass air flow sensor for good measure.

He has removed the heads and replaced the head gaskets, did a valve job (sent it to a machine shop) to no avail. The intermittent engine miss continues to pop up from time to time. That miserable check engine light continues to haunt this self-proclaimed auto mechanic.  Then, he wanted to know exactly what it was and how much it would cost to fix.

I don’t know about you but, I fear working on an auto mechanic’s car.

By the time you get it, every possible thing that could be easy has already been done. What remains is the near impossible.

I first thanked him for calling us and proceeded to tell him we would not be able to take the vehicle. That it was not a good fit for us at this time. My explanation was that it was more work we had time for at this time of the year. I did not want to lose one of my mechanics for that long of a period when we were filled with other jobs for clients who would continue to support us with all their work and not only the difficult to find, fix and quote.

I can’t print here what he said to me. I got a verbal barrage due the fact I was completely honest with him. It wasn’t the car we couldn’t deal with, it was the owner!

Next time I get a similar call, I’ll just give them a six-month appointment. 

Maybe they’ll get the hint and not be so hostile.

Hook Line and Sinker!

Hook line and sinker!

Hello Lee, it’s been a while. That’s how it all started.

A good Cadillac client from the past had purchased a 2009 E 350 Mercedes. It developed an engine noise and the dealer told him he needed an engine. The vehicle had stalled with camshaft sensor circuit codes stored in the computer memory. 

Apparently, Mercedes Benz has an issue with vehicles of that era. The timing chain tensioners or the balance camshaft wear prematurely, the subsequent metal debris takes out the rest of the engine. They gave him a quote for the engine and offered him $1,000 to purchase his vehicle. They were hoping to sell him a new one.

Our client had the vehicle towed from the dealer to us in hopes of a better answer. We looked at the vehicle and came to the same conclusion.

We gave him a quote to replace the engine, two options. Option one, a re-manufactured engine from Mercedes at one cost. Option two, a used engine from a reliable salvage partner at a much lesser cost but somewhat more of a risk.

We explained this to the client. When the vehicle was here, and he was pondering what to do, the dealer gave him a call and offered him the following.

Tear down the engine to find the actual failure (at the clients cost, of course!)

Then contact Mercedes corporate and ask them if they are willing to good will the repair, if that’s the case, then Mercedes picks up the tear down cost as well and thus no expense to the client for any of the repairs.

The client towed the vehicle back to Mercedes, agreed to an $1,900.00 quote for tear down and so they commenced the inspection. Hook line and sinker!

My client called me back today and told me, the dealer had contacted him back to let him know Mercedes had declined to get involved. In addition, they now knew for sure his E 350 needed a complete engine. There would be no subsidy or co-pay. He was now on the hook for the entire amount.

I knew this was going to happen, I’ve had dealers use that ploy before. You may ask, “why didn’t you tell him?”

When they almost assured him they could get Mercedes to pay, do you think he would have believed me?

 squeek squeek!

It drives me crazy!

But not for the reasons that you would think,
A 2010 Subaru is in our driveway and the complaint is a faint squeak noise when applying the clutch.

We asked the client to drive the vehicle with us and show us which specific noise he was talking about.
As he hadn't allowed himself enough time to do that, he was already late for work and asked that we should take him to work. Easy enough, consider it done, we said.

Can you ask the client for more information, the mechanic said. We texted and left a message for him to reply but he must have been very busy.

Do you have any idea what it takes to find the source of a little and infrequent noise?. Specially one the client didn't have time to show you.
Pure hell! is what it takes at times, easy at others and no way of knowing which one of the two it will be until you are deep into the job.
A good portion of the time, it takes two people as one drives and the other listens. That's two employees you have use to try and get the job done.

Mind you, if there are ten doctors in the operating room, all ten get paid. If an attourney consults another about your case, they both get paid as well. But you can toss two or three mechanics into one job and only one, if! and that's a big if, get's paid.
I have no idea why in our trade, multiple mechanics working on the same problem don't get the pay and the respect other professions get. 
You may opine that is due to a lack of trust. But attorneys do no enjoy any more or less trust than auto mechanics. And when you have to write "this is the good leg"  before surgery, I can't imagine you trust doctors anymore than mechanics or attourneys?
In the case I'm writing about, we never realy heard the noise. But given the parameters and circumstances that caused the complaint, it came from the clutch, transmission, slave cylinder or master cylinder area. As we took the time to rule out the sources, the only one we could not, was the slave cylinder. We offered that as a suggestion and the owner agreed to do it. 
The owner drove the vehicle away and came back within a short period of time to say the noise was still there, and furthermore, the pedal would go further down that before. 

We re-bled the system and after a road test, we released the vehicle. No noise and no dropping pedal.

Two days later, the owner took it to another shop as he says the pedal had once again dropped to the floor. 
Again, I had personally driven this vehicle for one full hour in heavy rush hour traffic. Throughout all this time, the clutch felt great to me.I would imagine the pedal must have dropped again for the client to go elsewhere.
The one thing that bothers me, is the fact the other shop told the owner the slave cylinder we had replaced couldn't have been the source of the noise. They never spent one second trying to find it, and yet, they concluded that whatever it was, it was not the slave cylinder. They were only asked second hand about the noise but were quick to opine about how wrong we had been in our diagnosis. I would guess some shops would use it as a means of connecting with the new client, by maligning the previous shop.
It saddens me when other shops will put you down in hopes of acquiring your business.
What saddens me the most, is how easy, people are willing to trust someone whom they just met, and only because they maligned the previous repair shop.
#subaru,#clutch,#pedal

Keep ruining it for everybody else

It's a quiet morning at work in the city of Ventura and I'm staring out through the front window, the weather as usual, is magnificent. But all that is about to change.

A vehicle was towed here recently, it had quit on the road, it was a Toyota Yaris with high miles and had not received any loving care and attention for some time. How do we know this you may ask?

On May the 11th of this year, we decided to give back to the community. Through the local churches in town, we selected 12 single moms who we knew could not afford to have professional car care performed on their vehicles. We decided to give these moms a free oil change, rotate the tires, inspect brakes, suspension, shocks, struts, belts and hoses, replace the wiper blades and send the vehicle to the car wash. All this as a courtesy, free of charge. Our budget was about $500.00 per car aided in by a grant from AC Delco.  First come first serviced as per our web site.  No strings attached.
We know it is tough to be a single mom. Never having enough money to make ends meet and never having enough time for their children and for themselves.
One of those cars was this Toyota Yaris.  The oil change and inspection work was done but due to her late appointment, we weren't able to perform any of the suggested work.  We gave her the information on her vehicle and she went on her way. Unfortunately the vehicle needed a substantial amount of maintenance and repairs which is not uncommon for these single mom vehicles.   She never mentioned "thanks" for the information and left.  But hey!, we weren't doing it for the appreciation, we just wanted to give back.

Fast forward to today and the vehicle just got towed here. We called her back to let her know the vehicle had arrived and we needed to do some inspection work. She approved the inspection work and we got started.

After the inspection, the quote was put together and we contacted her. The initial quote was for a large sum of money (which included all the previous information plus the current repairs). She needed brake pads and rotors, front and rear, struts, front and rear, radiator and cooling system hoses, the fuel pump and filter, belts, the spark plugs had over 150 K miles and the catalytic converter had a code P0420 stored in computer memory,  and of course, she could not afford it. We called her back with a different quote which did not include any maintenance.  It was quite a bit less but still she could not afford it. We called her a third time with a quote for just the bare minimum to get the car rolling (the fuel pump) . She said she would call us back. We went as far as letting her know that we would honor some of the mothers' day repairs by donating back $400 since she had been unable to let the vehicle stay back then for us to do some of the Free work.

The call back never materialized, but a tow truck did so on our driveway. "I'm here to pick up the Toyota" the driver said. We replied that it was not put together as we were waiting for a call back from the client,  additionally, there was an authorized inspection fee that had to be settled.

The tow truck left and soon the owner appeared ready to do combat. She wanted to know why we did not release the vehicle. That was an easy one! We weren't authorized to release it as she never called us back as promised.

"I don't owe you anything as I authorized nothing, do you have my signature anywhere I authorized some work?" was her reply.  For the small sum we were charging, we decided it was easier to waive it as it wasn't worth the aggravation, so we did.

But somehow that was the trigger point for her rage. She threaten to post the worst review on earth on Yelp.  She then told us that everything we did for mother's day was just a scam to bring more work in.
Hugo, our service manager, was speechless listening to her rant and rave and could not understand what we could have done wrong to deserve such a verbal barrage.

After she left, I  asked Hugo "why do we give so much on single mothers day for so many years only to have it ruined by such few individuals?".

So next year when mother's day comes around. You can thank Sarah J for the fact we will be closed enjoying the day with our loved ones, instead of giving back to the community of single moms who so desperately needs it.
,,,,,,,,,,,I know by then, the anger will have disappeared (not the bad review), and we'll plan on doing it over again.